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Part 2. Ralph Waldo Emerson Quotes That Are…

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I was an atheist once. Been there and got the T-Shirt. It comes and goes with circumstances. Indeed, Christians can expect to suffer in this life. What God does promise is peace with God and eternal life. The OT makes clear that God is an asshole. You must clear away that obstacle first. Talking to you is like shooting fish in a barrel. Hairy, you seem to have no problem making s moral judgement about God.

Where do you get moral truth from? Jesus Christ willingly gave himself as a sacrifice. He is God, just as is the Father and the Holy Spirit. In the cross of Christ we see how serious are sines are to a holy God, his love and mercy, and his justice. So rather than addressing the point I was obviously making you just spit out your religious creed like a doll with a pull string. Jesus could have just as easily given himself as a sacrifice without requiring belief in him.

What a failure! Why would a god thingy put requirements on forgiveness that only gullible people would accept? He also lets the Serpent infiltrate into the Garden and the punishment for eating the damned fruit falls into Adam and Eve when God has a lot of responsability for the mess. Fast forward. God has to sacrifice his son to fix a mess caused by Him and that could have been resolved by other means. Not a bad summary of some of the details, Alec. God does all this to glorify himself through the redemption of a fallen creation. Yup, in the end we are lowly creatures of rebellion who deserve to be squashed like bugs, but God displays his goodness by suffering himself for those that he chose in the very beginning to save.

We are fragile, fallen creatures that live 80 years or so. The average human in history has had a miserable existence. We know of God. All of us. Even if we deny it his laws are written into our conscience. We knowingly break those laws. So we are responsible. Our prominent sin is to reject the God that is and create one in our own image. Why would that be so? Are you your own moral authority? I told you more than once that I cannot solve the solipsism problem and neither can you. I can only react to the reality that is presented to me and work out what hurts and what feels good in that perceived reality.

Things we like are good. Those are descriptive words in the language I know that is used in this perceived reality.

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That is pathologically sadistic. A person who helps old ladies cross the street but tortures children to death in his basement for fun is not a good person despite outward appearances. You seem to have no difficulty assessing what is good and evil. But based upon what source of truth? In your worldview we are just a cosmic accident.

So if I understand what you are saying, your feelings determine your morality? What if I feel differently? Who is right and who is wrong? My senses and others senses which can apparently be enhanced by technology. Senses honed by evolution would be reliable enough. If they were totally unreliable, they would not have been beneficial and would be selected against as a waste of energy. I am right according to my morality and you are right according to your morality. If it is something that we both feel is worth fighting over, we would have to fight.

If not, we respect one another and move on. There is no absolute or objective morality. If there was an objective morality, you could just show how you got the knowledge. If you say you got it by pretending you know what an imaginary thingy says is objective morality, you will be laughed at. Picking things out of your imagination about things you cannot perceive by your senses is far less reliable than understanding things through your senses.

If our senses are such a poor predictor of reality I propose a test. We stand at the edge of a busy highway and on the count of three we each do our best to cross the road. I can use my powers of observation and can walk down to the corner and hit crosswalk button which may or may not be imaginary and wait for the possibly imaginary lights to change and stop the potentially imaginary cars before I head across. And you can use your prayers and trust in a potentially real God to guide you safely to the other side.

We carefully craft an illusion of God the surrounds us and comforts us, but when it comes right down to it, we know. People often disagree on what is right or wrong. Even self-proclaimed Christians all claiming the same source have differing opinions on right and wrong. We decide who is wrong or right through things like social influence, debate, rules and laws.

Not everyone always agrees. Asking questions so no one sees that the glaring question remains yours to answer? Yeah, you totally pulled off that rhetorical trick. Your undefended claim of objective morality is sitting there like a stinky turd. You going to take care of it? Upon what do you base this statement?

Man stealing was punishable by death. The Bible makes a clear distinction between slave bought with money, indentured servants, and hired hands. Genesis NRSV 12 Throughout your generations every male among you shall be circumcised when he is eight days old, including the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

Exodus NRSV 44 but any slave who has been purchased may eat of it after he has been circumcised; 45 no bound or hired servant may eat of it. Israelite indentured servants were not to be treated harshly but those bought with money could be. Leviticus 44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness. Exodus 2 When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt.

He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life. Slaves could be beaten. Exodus 20 When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. NO, rather they are men. NO, comrades. NO, they are unpretentious friends. NO, they are our fellow-slaves, if one reflects that Fortune has equal rights over slaves and free men alike. That is why I smile at those who think it degrading for a man to dine with his slave. But why should they think it degrading?

It is only purse-proud etiquette… All night long they must stand about hungry and dumb… They are not enemies when we acquire them; we make them enemies… This is the kernel of my advice: Treat your inferiors as you would be treated by your betters.

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The bible has YawehJesus ordering the enslavement of people…including virgins as sex slaves, raped. No, American slavery and biblical slavery were pretty much identical. Exodus NASB : 16He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death. Given that the Hebrews were instructed in Leviticus to obtain their slaves from the people around them, it is evident that this injunction to not abduct people referred to Hebrews and not non-Hebrews.

Obtaining and selling non-Hebrews was evidently not a problem. Deuteronomy specifies that only the abduction of Hebrews to enslave them is a crime. And with that revelation, became stories and writings, ultimately culminating into a flawed contradictory-filled book, claiming authority over the masses and promising the defectors an eternity of flame-filled existence? Sorry, but some of us completed 2nd grade and on the way learned that the fraudulent, gift-giving St.

Nicholas was really just Mom and Dad. If something is eternal and almighty, it could create whatever it wanted. The whole thing is stupid. Man is fallen and sinful. The last thing we want is to be held acciuntabke for our sins. God is holy and perfect in all his ways. As such, he glorified himself. God has chosen to glorify himself by the redemption of fallen man. Yeah, that smarts a bit.

Go outside tonight and gaze at the billions of stars and consider what is man. Your god is supposed to be all powerful, and all perfect, and all loving. So, why would that god need to be glorified? Yes, I go out and stare at the stars quite regularly. My human brain can barely comprehend it all.

So what? Get a grip. Hang in there, Pofarmer for you are getting warmer. The Bible says that God spoke this universe into existence. Think of that for a moment—God is a being that powerful and amazing. Indeed, reality consists only of God and his creation. Before creation existed, only God existed. Outside of time. He is fully and completely satisfied in himself. He needs nothing else, including our worship. For a moment, consider beauty—absolute and perfect beauty. Or any other transcendental quality such as goodness or virtue. Such things are praiseworthy.

That is, they are in and if themselves worthy of praise. God is that. Now here is what should truly blow our minds—Hid was pleased to create man in his own likeness—having a portion of his qualities. That makes mankind if incredible worth and we should rightly praise him.

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Fail means that it, not to mention an entity able to create something as arcane and ununderstarable as quantum mechanics plus whatever is hiding behind them quantum gravity theories plus an Universe as big as this one, maybe even infinite, would be an entity far beyond our understanding and that would certainly not behave as the typical deity or three thousand years ago, nor would take its sight on an insignificant people of cattle herders inhabiting a small part of an small planet… blah, blah.

Of course his book instead of being a work that would transmit our insignificance and at least scraps of that knowledge has all the signs of being an human creation of a time when very little was known of the Universe, with all that entails. As with so many religious people with seemingly little or not scientific knowledge, you cannot grasp the real significance of all the atributes you give to him. Where is absolute beauty? I can admire a sunset for its beauty. Knowing how the refractions, reflections, and shadows work makes it all the more interesting.

But if I was going to credit an omnipotent being with it, I would be disappointed by the grandest sunset. Is that the best omnipotence can manage? And you are assuming God…not just any God, but a specific God…one that you are trying to support with nonsense no one here thinks is rational. You are preaching a loada unsupported ballix. Give it up already, we are laughing at you at this point. Yup, in the end we are lowly creatures of rebellion who deserve to be squashed like bugs, but God displays his goodness by suffering himself for those that he chose in the very beginning to save instead of looking for better ways to resolve the mess he created in the first time.

The average human in history has had a miserable existence until scientific advancements has improved it. The bad news is that he is good a sadistic Bronze Age deity. Very good sadistic Bronze Age deity. So good sadistic that he will not tolerate evil and will punish His creations for all eternity and destroy the world ignoring what he said at first instead of fixing what He caused. Our prominent sin is to reject the God that is and create one in our own image like the Judeo-Christian God, who we think that is.

Or better, ask Him to bring an update, better, book and not that compendium of Bronze Age leyends and historied badly plagiarized from Judaism, where the original sin does not exist, and that does not make sense from your view. The guy dies and pops back to life in a day and a half? Big deal. You can have either a miracle resurrection or a sacrifice being dead.

Christian hilariously think that they can have both. Yet your conscience tells you otherwise. For that reason you have to suppress the truth Romans 1. Quoting a holy book that I think is bullshit is not an argument. Bob, if I could prove to your satisfaction that the God of the Bible existed, would you worship him? You hate him because you love your sin. Why would I worship that shithead? God is no different. Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge of things without parallel.

The strength of my belief in things is pretty much parallel to the strength of the evidence presented to me, not my desire to believe or disbelieve. For those of you who are struggling with your faith, take note of this tactic. You know what you are going through and how difficult your struggle is. You know that this is a lie.

This is the kind of tactic they will resort to in order to keep you in the fold. All of us have known people who have struggled with losing their faith and we know that what they went through is real. Can you see what religion does to your brain? Is this how God works? Blame you for your doubt? Would he pull this kind of vile victim shaming? My conscience pricks me when I do something wrong, and also commends me when I go the extra mile for somebody…. How stupid is this? You think God created himself to make himself a sacrifice to himself for the sins he created. I would easily to the same thing for less, like say saving World hunger or preventing all childhood cancer.

Especially if I knew it would just be a bad weekend and a bunch of pain to go thru. Especially knowing that I get to live in my fathers kingdom with the keys at hand. No biggie. If I only commit one sin, like lying, but I am perfect otherwise, then I get the same eternal sentence as a mass murderer or adulterer or thief. How is that justice?

In fact was a virgin at marriage because I was so committed to Jesus, etc. I went to Promise Keepers, I was an elder at church. I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more Isaiah But according to the propaganda, your god is merciful. Therefore evil does go unpunished. Christian theology is a Get of Hell Free card for any evil. Christian evil goes unpunished. Did you not know that? Or Islam? Or others? It denies that truth can be known.

Upon what basis do you judge truth, Bob? There is nothing wrong with admitting uncertainty. Being certain of something with no good evidence is evidence of Dunning-Kruger Syndrome. The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.

For instance it only took me once to learn that flame is quite hot and will cause pain. Knowing that, I worked out that other quite hot things will cause pain. It is a matter of whether my interpretation of the evidence is correct, which is probably what you meant.

Some tests I use are to determine if it is objective, do others see it as I do. If the evidence is described by others, are they reliable, what might they have to lose by not being truthful. If there are no others involved, is it a physical thing or just a mental thing, am I getting a complete sensory input, are my senses impaired? I started out without knowing anything about evidence but I learned to work out things about temperature, pressure, sounds, vision, smells, tastes.

I have learned how things interact from empirical observation enhanced by the study of others who describe how things interact and why. Nobody knows all things but God. That is. He is the only trustworthy basis if absolute truth. What is your own basis for absolute truth? First you have to show that your god exists before you can assign attributes to it. The only people arrogant enough to claim absolute truth exists are the religious and a few politicians.

If one does not acknowledge the existence of absolute truth, he has no truth at all and it is useless to discuss anything further with him. OK, for arguments sake I will acknowledge the existence of absolute truth. Now show how the truth you are asserting concerning God, specifically the Christian God, has anything to do with absolute truth.

The man who has no defense for his claim of objective moral truth is now arguing absolute truth? Are you going to defend that, or do we just have to trust you that it exists? All you have is what you imagine it to be. If you do, then tell me the six numbers that will be drawn in the MegaMillions lottery on October 23, If the combination gets all six numbers and that you provide them with sufficient time for me to purchase the ticket, I will donate a million dollars divided by however many winning tickets there are to the charity of your choice, If not, you owe me two dollars. I would be impressed if you could give me one combination that I played for the October 16, drawing.

I think that I think, therefore I am. I could be a subroutine in the Matrix or a dream of Vishnu. Everything else is probabilistic. Shall we start with a simple trivia competition, or can you maybe get your god to show up for a boxing match? Marcus must do what Elijah did against the priests of Baal and you get to use the benefits of science.

The winner gets a steak cooked to order and the loser must eat Steak Tartare. Uh, yeah. How about you? Does that not apply? What you should wonder about is why your loving god invented it. Sure, be a presuppositionalist like Markus and just declare that your views are inherently correct with no need to justify them further.

It is a lot less work and mess that way. We have been told that the soul is what has free will and that free will requires the possibility of sin, then there must be free will in heaven and the possibility of sin. We have been told that angels have been cast out of heaven because of sin, so that is confirmed.

If humans are evil and sin everyday, then getting to heaven will be a short-term experience. If hell is on a first-come, first-served basis then the first ones there will be able to find the slightly cooler places while Christians who start in heaven will end up in hell to claim the hotter regions. Just a minor variation in temperature will result in significantly more suffering over trillion year periods. That there are cultists by the zillions who explicitly condone torture in their waking minds making war crimes look like playground bullying is disturbing.

Now that I think about it, a memory surfaced. It was her way to politely inform me, a practicing Catholic then, not to bring up religion with her. To think of all the time and energy wasted on these phantoms. It may or may not affect cultist minds, that hell-lust, but it does affect others. I think he has shown all the visible evidence he has. The rest is in the damaged portion of his brain. Lol do you even see the contradiction? Man is evil. God tolerates man.

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One of those statements must not be true. Hi, Eric. God created man good but gave him the ability to obey or not obey him, with the warning that disobedience would result in spiritual death. Man chose, freely, to disobey, becoming evil. This is why we suffer now in a fallen world. Physical illness, physical death and all the suffering we experience are the consequence. And we will be judged when we die. The story is not over. God will write the last chapter. Does that mean that someone made that choice for me? If so, I fail to see why I should bear any moral responsibility for that choice.

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Shall the creature tell his Creator what is fair? Will God be limited to Western thoughts of individuality? God says that when Adam rebelled, we rebelled. And we prove it to be true when we show our complete inability to keep his moral laws. Yeah… No. The truth is that we have no choice over many things. We have no choice as to when or where we are born, our sex or the color of our skin, whether we are born to good parents or bad, and whether we are born into wealth or poverty. While I accept the truths of the Bible, and have been born again by the Spirit if God, I still live in a fallen body with a fallen mind.

I still am prone to hate God and my neighbor. Honestly, knowing how holy God is and how sinful I am is uncomfortable. I would, in my human nature, prefer that God just fix everything and eliminate sin and suffering. But I know that he is God and his will is different than mine. I know that my mind and heart prefer idols and not the true God. You are not allowed to ask questions.

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Any doubt you feel is automatically blamed on a sinful nature, which to this ex-christian, is an imaginary concept. Your natural sense of moral and intellectual thinking are bound and gagged by that little clause. Stories that people tell. One morphing god among countless morphing gods invented by humans.

And impossible to converse about your basis for those beliefs. All you want to do is preach. You are talking to many ex-christians here. We know the story. Susan, I am not bereft of a mind. My faith is not blind but is accompanied by intellectual assent. While I believe that there it is evidence that exhorts and encourages me, I do not believe it is why I have faith because the Bible makes it clear that my faith is a gift of God. Because I believe that the Bible is foundational truth, my worldview has been shaped by it. I once thought that evidence was sufficient for conversion and it shaped my apologetics.

As my understanding of scripture has grown, I have come to understand the true source of my faith as God. God is not physical but spiritual. He is transcendent. That is, his truths transcend the material world. You ask why I believe. As a former atheist I can attest that it was not the discovery of evidence that caused my conversion. I can tell you, for example, that I became disatisfied with my prior conclusions about God derived by my studies in science.

I could tell you that I became increasingly convicted of transcendental truths such as goodness, virtue, justice, integrity and beauty. But these were merely my subjective and personal experience that accompanied my salvation. I could tell you that I became aware that the material world could no longer offer me any sound basis for truth. Experientially there was a time in which I was able to read the Bible with a new understanding that had formerly not been there. I now understand by the revelation of scripture that I was being reborn by the Holy Spirit.

I am convinced by those same scriptures that i could no more facilitate my own conversion than I could change the courses of the planets in the solar system. I was dead, spiritually, but God gave me life. Until they repent and trust in Christ, my presentation will simply be rejected. Further I will have done wrong to my Lord by making a mortal his judge.

To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true. Ok, so reality corresponds to facts. So truth is that which corresponds to reality. I can live with that definition. The problem is that if I do not know what is really then, ceteris paribus , neither do you. A definite recommend. There is the problem of solipsism. Any one of us could be the brain in a vat or a dream of Vishnu. We can only interact with the reality presented to us.

But you go way past that into wishful thinking. How do you know that you are not in the Matrix and the Bible and everything you see as correspondence is just part of the program? Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuang Zhou. Between Zhuang Zhou and the butterfly there must be some distinction!

This is called the Transformation of Things. What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? We, and we includes you, accept ideas as true based on evidence and logic. Sometimes we discover the evidence or the logic are faulty, so we adjust our truth to accommodate the new evidence or logic.

We can only approach truth, never achieve it. Why personalise this? So, could we be mistaken about matters of fact? Of course we could, look at the things that were considered to be fact, for example the miasma theory of diseases. However, it comes down to justification and evidential backing. Take something more modern, the fact that biosphere was formed through common descent with modification. Could this be wrong, of course it could. However given the massive amount of evidential backing from many different lines of inquiry then this is unlikely to be overturned.

Just wanted to make a quick observation. We have no choice as to when or where we are born, our sex, or the color of our skin, whether we are born to good parents or bad, and whether we are born into wealth or poverty. But if you notice, all of the above scenarios have natural explanations. There is zero need to appeal to the supernatural for meaning unlike inherited so-called sin. As such, your reply is a category error. I agree that there are many things about our circumstances that are the result of external factors.

Want to try to avoid having our discussion diverge into too many different discussions. We have to recognize that we are mere creatures and God is God. That is a cop out answer to the question. Morally we know it is wrong to punish someone for the behavior of someone else. Does God follow moral rules?

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The eight Justices at work almost certainly were aware, however, of what was happening just a short distance away on Capitol Hill. There, in a Senate office building, the scene was one of tumult, blistering anger, and parliamentary chaos. The now-predictable political mess of reviewing a new nominee to the Court was getting even messier. As the nominee, Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh, grew increasingly agitated and the senators increasingly insulted each other, some observers around the nation began to ask themselves some hard questions: Can the Judge, if approved, ever outlive this and become an impartial Justice?

Will the Supreme Court be permanently damaged by this?

Is a just America a thing of the past? News articles began appearing, quoting the sage observations emanating from the academy, from amateur psychologists, from wise historians. Much of what they said could be summed up in simple phrases: gloom and doom, pain and misery, agony and woe. It is surely true that today and in coming days as the Kavanaugh episode moves toward an uncertain end, Washington will become more polarized, no one is going to wind up pleased with the outcome, women will once again feel betrayed by the culture, and much of America may well feel lasting shame.

On Monday, the Supreme Court — with one empty seat on the bench — will formally open its new term and start hearing new cases. It is totally predictable that not one word will be said in that chamber about Judge Kavanaugh and about the furor over his nomination or about the impact of all of that on the Court itself. Instead, everyone directly involved will start by focusing on a case named Weyerhauser Co. Fish and Wildlife Service. Encountering danger, leave it up to destiny. My master speaks when it is appropriate, and people never get tired of his words.

He laughs when he is happy, and people never tire of his laughter. He takes when it is right to do so, and people never get tired of his taking. Is it really so!? Duke Huan of Qi 38 was upright, and not devious. He had not fully developed his Humaneness, had he? How about this level of Humaneness? The people are benefiting from this down to the present day. If not for Guan Zhong, we would all be like unkempt barbarians, wearing our hair over our faces and fastening our clothes on the left.

With ministers like these, how could he fall from power? The inferior man penetrates that which is below. Modern scholars study to impress others. What a messenger! I have no spare time to do this. I worry about my lack of ability. Is it not that you be a flatterer? Repay harm with Justice 44 and repay virtue with virtue. No one understands me! I study from the bottom and penetrate to the top. Who understands me? Heaven does! But I have enough power to drag his carcass out into the middle of the marketplace.

What can Gong Boliao do about fate? There were seven who did this. Normally Confucianism is understood as a tradition where one must remain engaged in society. However, in this case, Confucius' attitude is reminiscent of that of Zhuangzi, who always recommended that intelligent people not accept the norms of a decadent world, and retire in solitude instead. If no one understands, just stop! When it's shallow, raise your skirt.

The ancients were all like this. After the ruler died, all of the officials took orders from the Minister of State for three years. Now, this is something that even Yao and Shun found difficult. But he is not seeking to develop himself. He wants to grow up too quickly. The next day, he and his disciples continued their travels. By the time they got to Chen, they had run out of provisions, and Zi Lu was obviously angry about it.

The inferior man falls apart. But perhaps not? I penetrate all with one. What did he do? He permeated himself with courtesy and correctly faced South. But if your speech is insincere and dishonest and your way of carrying yourself is neither earnest nor reverent, then even if you live in your hometown, you will have problems. When the government was just, he was like an arrow. When the government was unjust, he was like an arrow. When the government is just, he will have a position in it.

When the government is unjust he can roll up his principles and keep them in his breast. When a person shouldn't be spoken with and you speak to them, you waste your words. The wise do not lose people, nor do they waste their words. He will even sacrifice himself to consummate his humaneness.

When you live in a certain district, get into the service of the most worthy officers, and seek friends among scholars who are steeped in humaneness. Get rid of the music of Zheng; keep distance from flatterers; the music of Zheng is lewd; flatterers are dangerous. I have not yet met someone who loves virtue as much as he loves sex! He knew the ability of Liu Xiahui, but did not recommend him.

What is it? He actualizes it through propriety, demonstrates it in humility, develops it by truthfulness. This is the noble man! The inferior man seeks within others. He readily makes friends, but doesn't belong to a clique. What you don't like done to yourself, don't do to others. If I praise someone it is because I have had some way of testing him. Nowadays such niceties are gone!

Lack of patience in small matters leads to the disruption of great plans. If everybody loves something, you'd better check into it. It is not the way that unfolds the person. Thinking cannot compare with studying. Doesn't agriculture have the avoidance of starvation as its motivating factor, and study have enrichment as its motivating factor? The noble man is concerned about following the Way, and is not concerned about avoiding poverty.

If your wisdom grasps it and your ren is sufficient to maintain it, but you don't manifest it, the people will not revere you. If your wisdom grasps it, your ren is sufficient to maintain it, and you manifest it but don't act according to propriety, you are still not perfect. Even with a deep understanding of reality essence and a concomitant reflection in the person, external polish is still necessary to be a complete human being.

The inferior man cannot handle major affairs, but he can act within the framework of lesser wisdom. But I have seen people tread on water or fire and die. I have never seen someone walk the path of ren and die. Since ancient times the former kings have maintained Zhuanyu as the site of the sacrifice at Dong Meng mountain.

Moreover, it is located within our own country, and has served as the site of our national altars to the soil and grain; why should it be attacked? Moreover, what you are saying is wrong. When a tiger or wild buffalo 46 escapes from the cage, or the tortoise shell and jade are destroyed in their cases, whose fault is this? I have heard that the heads of states or noble families do not worry over poverty but instead over equal distribution of wealth; they do not fret over underpopulation, but whether the people are insecure.

If it done like this, then if there are distant subjects who do not submit, you can attract them by cultivating refinement and virtue. Once they come, then you can give them security. Now You and Qiu, serving as advisors to your lord, have distant subjects who will not submit, and you are unable to attract them; the country is falling apart, and you can do nothing to preserve it.

Yet you now plan military action within your own state. I am afraid that the trouble of the descendants of Ji lies not in Zhuanyu, but rather, within the confines of our own court. When the Way declines in the realm, then ritual, music and military campaigns are initiated by the nobles.

When these things are initiated by the nobles, the ruling house will usually lose its power within ten generations. When these things are initiated by the high ministers, the ruling house will usually lose its power within five generations. When they are initiated by the lower officers, the ruling house will lose its power within three generations.

When the Way prevails in the realm, the common people do not debate politics among themselves. It has been four generations since the government came under control of the Councilors. Therefore the descendants of the three Huan 49 have been in decline. Friendship with the honest, friendship with the sincere, and friendship with the learned are all beneficial.

Friendship with the deceptive, friendship with the unprincipled, and friendship with smooth talkers are harmful. The enjoyment of cultivation in music and ritual, the enjoyment of speaking of the goodness of others and the enjoyment of being surrounded by friends of good character are all beneficial. The enjoyment of arrogance, the enjoyment of dissipation and the enjoyment of comfort are all harmful. The inferior man does not know the decree of Heaven; he takes great men lightly, and laughs at the words of the sages.

Those who study to know it are next; those who are limited and yet study are next; those who are limited and do not even study are considered to be the lowest level of people. In seeing, he is aware of clarity; in listening, he is aware of acuity; in faces, is aware of warmth; in the attitude he projects, he is aware of courtesy; in speech, sincerity; in service, reverence. In doubt, he is inclined to question; when angry, he is aware of the difficulties that may ensue. When he sees an opportunity for gain, he thinks of what would be Just. I regard goodness as something I haven't attained.

I regard evil as my deep-welling spring. I hide myself away in order to fathom my own will. I act with fairness to penetrate the Way. I have heard this said, but haven't seen this kind of person. Bo Yi and Shu Qi died of starvation at the foot of Shouyang mountain, and the people praise them up till this day.

What meaning can you glean from this? I have only heard these two things. I learned about the Poems , I learned about the Propriety and I learned that the noble man is not partial to his son. Confucius timed his visit of thanks when Yang Huo was not at home. Comment: A somewhat unusual narrative in the Analects , as Confucius clearly loses the argument to a higher moral ground, accepting judgment, at the same time admitting his deep desire to serve the government.

If regular people learn the Way, they become easy to employ. What I said before was only a joke. If there is someone who is willing to make use of me, shall I not make his land an Eastern Zhou? Zi Zhang asked what they were. If you are courteous, you will not be disrespected; if you are generous, you will gain everything. If you are honest, people will rely on you. If you are persistent you will get results.

If you are kind, you can employ people. If you love being kind to others, but don't like to study, then your kindness will be distorted into simplicity. If you love wisdom, but don't like to study, then your wisdom will be distorted into aimlessness. If you love trustworthiness, but don't like to study, then your trust will be distorted into harm.

If you love candor, but don't like to study, your candor will be distorted into rudeness. If you love boldness, but don't like to study, your boldness will be distorted into unruliness. If you love persistence, but don't like to study, your persistence will be distorted into rashness. Bi Xi has taken Zhongmou 50 against its will, so how can the Master go there? But is it not said that if you polish something hard, it will not wear thin?

And it is not said that if something is truly white, if you try to dye it black, it won't change color? Shall I be like a gourd that can be hung, but never eaten? The Odes can uplift you, can make you observant, can help you to get along with people, can help you to use your anger [in a proper way]. Applied near at hand, you can serve your father; applied at a distance, you can serve your ruler. You can learn much about the names of birds, beasts, plants, and trees. Isn't the one who does not learn the Zhou Nan and Shao Nan chapters just like someone who stands directly facing a wall?

How can they ever serve a ruler?! When they don't have something, they make themselves miserable in getting it. Once they get it, they go nuts about losing it. Once they are worried about losing it, there is nothing they won't do. The wild guang 53 of antiquity were unbounded; the wild of today are dissipated. The proud of antiquity were gallant; the proud of today are hot-tempered. The simple-minded of antiquity were straightforward; the simple-minded of today are liars.

Yet the four seasons continue to change, and all things are born. Does Heaven speak? When his messenger went to the door, the master picked up his lute and began to sing so that Bei could hear him. If the Noble Man does not exercise ritual for three years, the rituals will certainly deteriorate; if music is not played for three years, it will certainly vitiate. Last year's grain is already gone, this years' grain has already sprouted. And the seasonal cycle for the use of wood 56 for producing fire by friction has already passed through.

One year is enough. When the Noble Man is in mourning, he cannot enjoy the taste of delicious food, cannot enjoy the sound of music, and cannot be comfortable in his own home, and therefore he won't do such a thing. Now, if you are comfortable with it, then do it. It is only after three years that a child avoids his parent's embrace.

The three-year period of mourning is observed throughout society. Wasn't Zai Wo loved three years by his parents? He could at least play cards or chess or something. It would be better than nothing. If the noble man is brave without fairness, he will be rebellious. If the inferior man is brave without fairness, he will become an outlaw. He hates those who advertise the faults of others. He hates those who abide in lowliness and slander the great.

He hates those who are bold without propriety. He hates those who are convinced of their own perfection, and closed off to anything else. How about you, what do you hate? If you get familiar with them, they lose their humility; if you are distant, they resent it.

If I can be satisfied with handing out injustice, why should I bother leaving the land of my parents? I can employ him somewhere between the status of Ji or Meng Sun. I can't use him. Ji Huan ruler of Lu received them, and for three days did not hold court. Confucius left. How your virtue has declined! Your past cannot be corrected,. But your future is yet to come. Give up! Those who involve themselves in Government now. Will be in danger. Confucius jumped down, wanting to talk to him, but he ran away, so Confucius couldn't talk to him. He sent Zi Lu to ask them where he could ford the river.

And who can change it? Rather than following a shi who avoids people, you should follow one who escapes from the world! Zi Lu went back and reported this to Confucius. So if I don't associate with people, then who will I associate with? If the Way prevailed in the realm, I would not try to change anything. Zi Lu stood there with his arms folded. The old man had him stay overnight. He killed a chicken, prepared millet and fed him, and then introduced him to his two sons.

The next day, Zi Lu left, and he told Confucius. When he arrived, the man was gone. If the relationship between young and old cannot be abandoned, how can the relationship between ruler and minister be abandoned? Desiring to keep his own purity, he disrupts the great bonds of society. The noble man practices his fairness from his place in society. When fairness is not being done, he is the one who is aware of it. That is about all that can be said of them. Therefore, he has never fired anyone unless there was a really good reason, and he does not seek to squeeze everything out of one man.

What can you gain? And what can you get rid of? The noble man venerates the worthy but accepts everyone. He praises the good and pities the incapable. Now if I were a worthy, whom should I not accept? If I am unworthy, shall people cast me aside? How can you just push people away like this? But if he tries to extend it too far, it will lose its functioning. Therefore, the noble man does not do this. The noble man studies in order to actualize his Way. From afar, he appears majestic; close up, he seems warm; listening to his speech, he seems polished. If he doesn't have their trust, they will regard him as oppressive.

Only after gaining his trust will they criticize him openly. If he doesn't trust them, he will take their criticism as backstabbing.

Why is it so? Isn't this a bit of an exaggeration? In the Way of the Noble Man, those who advance first are summoned, and those who are late fall away. How can the Way of the Noble Man be deceptive? Who, but a sage, can both take the initiative and bring matters to their completion? After you have accomplished your studies, then get a job. It is difficult to practice ren with him. But his running his government without changing his father's ministers or systems— this was quite difficult.

When you are aware of their suffering, then you should be sorrowful, never joyful. Therefore the Noble Man dislikes residing in the lower reaches, where all the evil of the world accumulates. But when he corrects them, everyone looks up to him. The Worthies have assimilated the major points, and the less-than-worthy have assimilated the minor points.

There is no place where the Way of Wen and Wu does not exist, so how could the Master not learn it? Why would he need to get it from a certain teacher? My wall is only shoulder high, which you may look over and see the desirables that lie inside. My Master's wall is several tens of feet high and if you can't find the door and enter by it, you will not see the beauty of its ancestral temple, nor the splendor of its hundred officers.

Those who find the door are few indeed. Are not my Master's words even more difficult to grasp? Confucius cannot be slandered. The virtue of other men is like a small hill, which can be climbed over. Confucius is like the sun and the moon. There is no way they can be climbed over. Even if you want to cut yourself off from the sun and moon, how can you hurt them? It is easy to see that Wushu does not know value. How could Zhongni Confucius be more worthy than you?

Hence, one must be careful when choosing one's words. The level of the Master cannot be reached, just as the heavens cannot be ascended to using a stairway. In life he was glorious, in death he is mourned. Hold firm to the center. If the whole realm falls into dire straits, the heavenly stipend will disappear forever.

When a crime is done, I will not dare to pardon it. I will I cover up for your servants, but leave the decision up to your discretion. When I am guilty of a fault, I will not blame it on all the people, and they are at fault, I will take responsibility myself. Although he was surrounded by close relatives, they were not treated on a par equal with the Good. If there are faults among the officials, 58 I will take the blame myself.

Be careful with weights and measures, scrutinize well the legal code, and restore offices that have fallen into disuse — then all the lands in the four directions will be well-governed. Raise up failed states, re-establish broken lineages, empower those had avoided service, and all the common people in the realm will put their trust in you. Place value on the common people, food, mourning for the dead, and ritual sacrifice. If you are generous you will gain the hearts of the people; if you are trustworthy, they will rely on you; if you are diligent, you will get results; if you are fair, they will be happy.

If you can follow these, you can handle the affairs of government. If you select the matters where it is appropriate to work and have people work hard at them, who will be resentful? If you desire Goodness and attain it, where will there be greed? Whether dealing with the many or the few, the young or the old, the Noble Man does not dare to be conceited. Is this not indeed the meaning of being proud but not being arrogant? The Noble Man, straightening his robe and cap, is respectful in his gaze; he is severe in the gazes of the people, yet is in awe of them.

Is this not the meaning of being strict without being severe? If you do not understand propriety, there is no way for you to be established. If you do not understand words, there is no way for you to understand people. The Book of Odes. Also translated as the Book of Poetry , or Book of Songs.

It is a collection of poems, written during the years between the beginning of the Zhou dynasty and the middle of the Spring and Autumn period. It is believed that Confucius selected from more than 3, pieces and edited them into a book to be used for education. Of the poems, each is usually known by its title, which are drawn from phrases found in its opening passage. This simile for the process of self-perfection is found often in Confucian texts.

It was in Lu, or rather on the borders between Lu and Ji, about two miles north of the present department city of Tai-an in Shandong. According to the ritual of China, sacrifice could only be offered to those mountains by the sovereign, and by the princes in whose States any of them happened to be.

For the chief of the Ji family, therefore, to sacrifice to the Tai mountain was a great usurpation. Lin Pang, — see chap. Ran You was one of the disciples of Confucius, and is now third, in the hall, on the west. He entered the service of the Ji family, and was a man of ability and resource. It begins by describing a lover's grief at being separated from his lady and ends by describing their joyful union.

Waley, He is considered to be responsible for many of the duke's administrative achievements. Daodejing Ch. Which was out of the range of Qi's influence. Legge says p. A high official of the Song, who was trying to assassinate Confucius. This is probably a reference to Yanhui, Confucius' favorite among his disciples, who died young.